Pete
May 22, 2005

Ethics, lovemarks and fake arrests for assault on school children. Design Survival Camp 7 had it's moments, how you did guys find it?

Zef
May 23, 2005

It was a blast - but I agree with Newy - more Q+A and discussion would have greatly improved the event. It also would have been good to hear more about the life and times of working as a designer (stories) as opposed to (some) people rambling on and jerking off about how brilliant they were.

It's great having world leading designers speak (and being inspired by their work), but the reality of working in the industry is often quite different from the glam glam they portray.

Jon Waters from TVNZ gave a more realistic picture - with a mixture of inspiring show and tell, but then some reality checks. Who would have thought they'd struggle to get budget approval for an essential piece of editing software?

Also, I wouldn't consider spending 3 months designing the little plug-casing at end of the headphone jack for the iPod glamorous - would you?

Highlights: DevilRobots + Mark Murphy - ironically, these are the people with the most unreal jobs! (just having fun, and making money as they go...)

monk
May 23, 2005

design camp was pretty good, i expected a little more from it though...ohwell i bet up some children...it was worth it...

the ironic thing is later that night (thursday) i got suckapunched in the face.
broke my dam nose...basterd

i cant tell you how hard it was walking around design camp for two days with a broken nose and all the teachers thinking i had bet up some high skool kids cause i was drunk. Ahh it was worth it. haha.
yea i must admit a few of the speakers almost put me to sleep,
i enjoyed the shift crew, cheers barry... that first website you guys showed us was quite insane.

Taylor
May 23, 2005

// Well, where does one begin ... Ahh yes, our crew (UNDISCLOSED – lol) managed 3 all-nighters to complete our presentation (WSD), so any speakers without the X factor of excitement and attitude were the end for me personally *snores. Moreover - Newy, Newy, Newy, - he's always on the button that boy - more 'open forum' style discussion is always needed, as I do fell as if it was obviously lacking. Also want to take this opp. to thank Hazel Gamec and her peeps for her endless energy and effort to make such a conference possible - huge respect. And to those D.A. lads for rockin it for me personally. Peace. PS, Pete, luv that thing you do, get in touch with DWANK for WSD presentation vid if still interested //

Pete
May 24, 2005

James and I had a blast despite the tiny room with the constant sound of a council waterfall, WangaVegas closing at 3am, being told the after party was at a closed pub (Jenna?) and Man U losing the FA cup final.

You students we're great, especially the Waikato Student that asked me about search engine optimization just out of the blue (I'm sorry if I put you off a career in web design it was after 10pm remember). As barry's already said, if you've got a question or whatever ask away.

I actually enjoyed most of the speakers, I did miss the Q&A style at the end of the presentions like previous years tho and thought what Prada are doing was amazing on a techinical level.

For those stuck at home or still in the hotel room sleeping off the night before, the WSD student presentation created by the DWANK lads will be available on FTM sometime soon. But before then, James will be adding photos into photogeneric in the next couple of days.

Roger
May 24, 2005

don't get me started on the FA cup final ... devastated and despairing at Sky programming people. Cutting to Sports Illustrated after 90 mins. Brutal.
We enjoyed the event: great venue, nice people. A good MC in a rabbit suit. V pleased it ended with a bang. Murphy's vision and rich publications; the man from Sony CSL & his more reticent demeanour and interface design projects. Wow some of those things oozed near-future zeitgeist. I think BlockJam was our favourite.

Also disappointed with complete absence of closing Q & A. Enjoyed me 1hr + 1/2 lunches but some of that time could easily be given over to, oh, I don't know, intelligent discussion maybe.
Much more importantly, almost NOBODY engaged with the 'brief', one that was neatly designed to illicit design debate in political and economic contexts. Here 'tis:

"Third world economy, first world design", will be discussed and debated to explore ideas impacting on "New Zealand's design future.

Something is happening in design culture [an elusive thing yes, most of us deal with increasingly shrinking industry/education niches]. I think there is a widespread complacency that arises from competition, an over-inflated confidence and people working too long and hard at computers and not thinking enough. We might be ignoring good topics that are there, and, it seems in the cases of some of these bigger, richer 'conferences', we are dispensing with collaborative discussion altogether. Personally I get tired of too much show and tell. I think to do merely that, you need to be a very charismatic speaker. I much prefer to do more that visual exposure stuff via web & print.

You can put the situation like this: there is an event. It has protocol. The prompt or brief is like a person: you can interpret it in many different ways, but you must acknowledge it. If you don't, then we can make one or more of the following assumptions:
1. that the designers find the topic boring, and so they arrogantly ignore it
2. that the designers imagine that their work somehow perfectly 'answers' the brief, so they needn't bother articulating it
3. that the designers are incapable of involving themselves in a conversation beyond their portfolio or everyday work, they are ill-equipped to discuss or research issues of the history/sociology/future etc of design

I guess these are all kind of alarming suggestions, the latter especially. I think there are actually a lot of smart people with some new knowledge to add.

PS I spoke to Pete Mc on Sat night, he had the good idea that the days should be split into an 'Industry Day' and a 'Debate Day'. Or something like that. Do-ers and thinkers.

PPS mr pranky – that guy was from Canterbury not Otago [it was actually Otago that worked with the topic]. Yes, people have to be careful what they say, try to be constructive. Though he struck a chord I think – not because Fraser decided to talk for awhile about travelling in cars, but because of a creeping awareness around the room that, by the second morning, that nobody was trying to deal with the set discourse.

Barry
May 25, 2005

I'd like to respond on shifts behalf if I may, regarding not engaging the brief.
Our studio is crazy insane busy right now. We threw ideas around the studio, but simply didn't have time to execute them. We apologize, but we just didn't have time. Seriously. No time. We'll always try to get something organised that meets the theme, whatever that may be. It just might not be practical for us.
I appreciate your feedback, I was disapointed also to not be able to explore the brief.
Regarding bagging Fraser, he isn't simply the president of DINZ, he has also had quite a long and inspiring career in the field of design. Show some fucking respect.

realitychecker
May 25, 2005

Like shift, I've been quite busy too, and the prep work for my presentation turned out to be a one-man operation with one day allocated to scoop up fragments of video and audio. If I'm ever invited back, I hope I can be better prepared. My apologies for this.
(as for sticking to the theme, if you saw what I earn, you’d realise I am the theme)
Wages have defiantly gone down for designers in New Zealand and selling your sole comes in at a much lower price than it use to. I put this down to the shear number of design courses out there, some offering less skills than others. I don’t think this effects, too much, the overall quality of design in New Zealand, but I do worry for the misguided people who get themselves into dept then can’t get a job in the industry. Design sweat shops are what we should be concerned about. When you’re in one it’s hard to find the exit.

Ironically I think 'Lovemarks' created the most dialog (some of it quite drunken and funny as hell)
The smoking bunny, mattress man, and playing the devil robot at pool left the greatest impressions.
Hats off with the most sincerity to Hazel, Judy, Vicky, Russ and all the others who worked so hard for so long to give us all such a fantastic weekend.
I'm not sure about other industry people. I see Wanagnui through rose tinted glasses, so it defies me as to why they would not have the best time there. (maybe they are just boring barstards)
Oddly enough the only people who hassled me about anything I said onstage, were two Ozzy girls who wanted to know what was wrong with our Ident being crafted in the orange land. I was disappointed! I expected more anger especially after a few beers.
Ethics – I’ve been designing for a while now, and yet to confront them. I’m quite politically minded and if I was given the job of pushing smokes to teens or coke for that matter, I’d probably refuse, but you cross the bridges when ya come to them, aye.

Love to all
Jon
jon.waters@tvnz.co.nz

Johnson
May 25, 2005

Picking up where Newman left off...No dis-resspect John but - John Waters and Ethics are probably two words that do not belong in the same sentence. Maybe John is more inteliigent than we take him for and maybe his statements were a cunning ploy to get designers talking about ethics through his provoking statements...maybe not.

Regardless, ethics and industry will always be something of a pick'n'mix. I think that John's attitude while a bit ignorant, is one common amongst those working professionals, in which the real world unfortunately dictates the ethical choices we make. Cliche "you've got to pay the bills"

While talking about the need need for ethics is easy, mainting ones own can at times be a lot more difficult.

Zef
May 25, 2005

Jon - like you I've been both ground and polished by the wheels of industry over the years - and share your views on the devaluation of design in this country - especially since the days of overtime pay seem to be over.

On ethics - I have turned down several jobs due to ethics - but me being a tree-hugging vegan organic-tofu-munching parent this has happened less often than you might think. But it really does depend on your personal situation - it's easy when you're single with few responsibilities...

At DesignCamp I found it both refreshing and disturbing to see the naive young designers thinking they'd walk straight into design nirvana - 20% might (I was actually quite lucky myself when I started out - being Tearaway's first ever employee), but even the galmour jobs at the likes of Peter Jackson's empire ain't so glamourous - dig around and you'll find many stories of burnout, stress and suffering families...

Is the design industry in denial? Does the fact our industry appears more glam than most mean we just roll over and get our bellies patted occassionally?

I suspect the design industry is suffering from 'super model syndrome'... Sure, the end result looks good, but what's really going on behind the scenes?

Ruth
May 26, 2005

Good one James, break up the conversation just when it's hotting up. Speaking of starving designers, Jon can i have that $50 you owe me? Cheers. :P

back to your work stations everyone..
Actually, Barry, doesn't one of Shifts clients include a casino or two? Did that cause any ethical dilema's? Is it the client that is the dilema, or the design that we parcel the client/issue up in?

Angela
May 27, 2005

Shift the blame all you want.

I have conflict with given briefs once in a while, be it ethical or not. It's just part and parcel of being a Designer. Either stand up and suffer the consequences ... (YOU'RE FIRED!) ... or pipe down.

Re: "Third world economy, first world design"

I compare my job to a Panelbeaters (glamourous?, on the contrary). We take out the dents/rust and make the surface look smooth, whether it be a Skoda (no offence Skoda lovers) or a Porche. It's hard work, sure, sweat shop at times, but I'd rather be doing something I love (I'd do it for free even), than packing cans into boxes 12 hrs a day!

Ruth
May 27, 2005

I reckon this ethics thing is a slight tangent from the topic "third world economy, first world design" anyway and a bit of a dead end conversation really cause we're all gonna choose whether to accept the job or not based on our own beliefs. To me the topic brings to mind an old cliche regarding number eight wire, although NZ isn't really a third world economy is it? Anyone have any great interpretations of it?

Aaand, is everyone going back to design camp next time?

Taylor
May 27, 2005

my god ruth - yes yes yes. all the way - hell yes.

Zef
May 30, 2005

In retrospect, ENAT - John, Vicki AND Jacko... So that would have made me Tearaway's first non-feral employee. Although I did turn kinda nocturnal - and been that way ever since...

hughmama
June 5, 2005

what a strange disparity there is between the selfishness of one person or one country and the selfishness of a family
a wife and child are not license to tacitly support harmful practices
they don't wash away guilt people
broaden your mind and consider others as well as yourself
ethics is not a sidetrack
we are pigs in new zealand people
one of the most wasteful countries on earth
100% pure is a load of shit
and the ad campaign is fucking embarrassing
without ethics in our design practice we are no better than america as a country, fucking on others so we can live out our delusional fantasy

Barry
June 7, 2005

I'm inclined to think that putting my family first is quite unselfish.
I was talking at a really basic level (maybe you missed that) and I would be prepared to discuss it further, but seeing as your whiny little opinion was
a) anonymous
b) had no basis in fact
c) got a little personal on the attack
all I'm gonna say is, fuck you and the faceless horse you rode in on, you don't know the first thing about me, so don't presume to.
Thats the problem with you idealists, you are quite happy to tell other people how to live, and as long as you put the all encompassing disclaimer "we shouldn't be telling others how to live", and add a bit of anti-American sentiment for good measure, you seem to be able to rationalise your holier than thou attitude.
In short, you don't know shit about fuck all mister, go back to your anonymous cupboard and masturbate about your wonderful righteous self all you want.
While I'm changing environmentally friendly washable nappies, you aint changing shit.